Put this here as it is about other equipment . I only listen digital music I do not play vinyl and this in my case a very definite choice . It started when CD was introduced and over the years has changed to file playing and streaming . Most of my listening is to CD,s ripped as FLAC files stored on a Music Server with a HD and using Lyrion Server software . In my quest for better quality there things have struck and become areas I have gone down the rabbit hole in search of answers . Much of this is not accepted and often denied by others but these are just my thoughts . Firstly power supplies , I used to have items in the music / network chain powered by SMPS supplies but I have found that replacing all of these with good quality LPSU supplies makes a difference and lowers the back ground noise in your system . Next comes vibration , now while this is accepted for mechanical items it is not always thought about for players , dac,s and even routers . I found that each and every one has some form of vibration which using things like Stack Audio Isolaters , Black Ravioli pads reduced and the music level improved . Lastly and almost certainly the area I get most push back on is digital clocking . All music files are based around a clock and timing . In my view the more stable and accurate the clock the better and more natural the music sounds . Within digital there are two different clocks the main clock and the word clock . The main clock is fixed at 10 kHz while the word clock varies by the different digital levels 44.1 , 48 , 96 , 176.4 , 192 and above . Most vital is the best main clock and using the modest Leo Bodnar GPS clock at around £180 is Mutec then good enough to show major improvements over most internal clocks . You can spend much more on accurate stable clocks but we are talking lots more . All the above in my current experience make good levels of improvement but in many cases the improvements are incremental with each change building on the last one . So a bit of a meander but hopefully enough to give others something to think about .
Digital Playback what makes a difference ?
- Thread starter Bencat
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Fretless
Member
Looks familiar, my own digital audio journey was littered with small revelations about how to improve the sound.
You don't mention cables (or did I miss that?). Eventually I settled on OCC coax leads, their composition removes internal crystalline borders within the copper strands thus reducing the chance of jitter.
I spent a lot of time with USB cables, ending up with DH Labs Mirage & Silver Sonic and AQ Carbon.
Network cables: a stock CAT8 lead will compete with esoteric brands.
FLAC: tried it. It's okay but uncompressed WAVs have an openness of sound that FLAC takes away.
Eventually I realised that I was just trying to get my system sounding as 'analogue' as possible - so I just went back to LPs as my primary listening source.
Digital audio is more convenient and it taught me a lot.
You don't mention cables (or did I miss that?). Eventually I settled on OCC coax leads, their composition removes internal crystalline borders within the copper strands thus reducing the chance of jitter.
I spent a lot of time with USB cables, ending up with DH Labs Mirage & Silver Sonic and AQ Carbon.
Network cables: a stock CAT8 lead will compete with esoteric brands.
FLAC: tried it. It's okay but uncompressed WAVs have an openness of sound that FLAC takes away.
Eventually I realised that I was just trying to get my system sounding as 'analogue' as possible - so I just went back to LPs as my primary listening source.
Digital audio is more convenient and it taught me a lot.
Cables is another can of worms . In the digital domain XLR AES/EBU are used and I found little difference . USB is in my view not a suitable connection due to the usually poor quality of the sockets and senders used . The cables from DAC to amp are NVA . Speaker cable is Duelund . I did lots of listening to WAV files compared to FLAC and sadly was never able to hear any difference which probably says more about my hearing . I have also found recently using Spotify through my Lryion server also sounds very good and not far off a WAV file so as I say probably my hearing . When doing changes and improvements I have often found that the lower quality compressed sound such BBC Radio 6 show the most improvement .
Concur with Fret about WAV. I transferred all of my CD rips from FLAC to WAV and it was very time consuming. I have been digital only for some time, mainly streaming rips and Qobuz purchas from my NAS, though I also stream Qobuz. For me the key to good digital sound is upsampling, good power supplies and filtering. I am a bit confused about clocking and it seems to me that a good DAC has a lot to do with it. I have read that what Rob Watts refers to as Taps is to all intents and purposes clocking.
Thing is most DAC,s and digital systems do not have an easy input to test a better clock . I heard the improvements from my Mutec first and was really impressed . Then through tips from someone with far more knowledge and equipment than me that using a very affordable external clock would elevate things even more the £160 delivered price seemed worth the risk . That was over two years ago and I just love what it does . Any system I have come across that allows an external clock input I have taken the LB Clock around and in only one instance did they not buy one . That one case the individual decided he wanted better and spent over £3000 to achieve that . So 100% were convinced that better clocks work . I currently today have received a better measuring clock which is £1200 luckily this is on loan to try so I can find out myself not only is it better but if it is that much better . Interesting times .
Fretless
Member
I have an Oehlbach XXL Masterclock in between my Volumio PC and DAC. This is a little regen device that does a lot to clean up the USB signal.
Also have a Schiit Wyrd which is nearly as good.
Upsampling: needs a lot of CPU to work otherwise you can feel the processors struggling. The converted desktop PC's with Volumio can manage 352.8KHz comfortably but my RPi2-based players max out at 88.2KHz.
Upsampling to multiples of the original sampling rate also helps. Converting from 44.1KHz to multiples of 48 can also degrade the audio signal.
Also have a Schiit Wyrd which is nearly as good.
Upsampling: needs a lot of CPU to work otherwise you can feel the processors struggling. The converted desktop PC's with Volumio can manage 352.8KHz comfortably but my RPi2-based players max out at 88.2KHz.
Upsampling to multiples of the original sampling rate also helps. Converting from 44.1KHz to multiples of 48 can also degrade the audio signal.
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Fully agree with the upsampling comment my Purcell has the option to switch depending on the original source . So if 44.1 then best sound is achieved at 176.4 but if 48/96 then best sound is at 192 . Playing any 44.1 material at 192 clearly shows this . Luckily I have a remote that means I can switch the upsampling from my seat .
TheMarlin
Member
I use all sources. Mostly vinyl ans streaming, but also have a very nice sounding CD Transport, and great DAC. I use the same DAC (different inputs) for streaming and CD.
Streaming is the most convenient source I have, but also the worst sounding. The CD player absolutely wipes the floor with it, even with the exact same recording.
Vinyl (caveat, with a well produced record, quality pressing) sounds dynamic, alive and three dimensional. Streaming sounds distant and flat in comparison.
I’ve upgraded the nuts off my streamers, both have the onboard power sections replaced, and top end toroidal power supplied installed. It make a ‘bit’ of difference, but not particularly significant.
I also and feed the digital source into a great sounding DAC (bypassing onboard DAC, often a weak point on streamers)
I now buy fist fulls of CD’s from charity shops for 10p each. I have to wade through a lot of rubbish to find a gem, but i usually leave with a decent harvest.
I have way more joy in CD than steaming, if it wasn’t for the convenience, would have hot rid long ago.
Streaming is the most convenient source I have, but also the worst sounding. The CD player absolutely wipes the floor with it, even with the exact same recording.
Vinyl (caveat, with a well produced record, quality pressing) sounds dynamic, alive and three dimensional. Streaming sounds distant and flat in comparison.
I’ve upgraded the nuts off my streamers, both have the onboard power sections replaced, and top end toroidal power supplied installed. It make a ‘bit’ of difference, but not particularly significant.
I also and feed the digital source into a great sounding DAC (bypassing onboard DAC, often a weak point on streamers)
I now buy fist fulls of CD’s from charity shops for 10p each. I have to wade through a lot of rubbish to find a gem, but i usually leave with a decent harvest.
I have way more joy in CD than steaming, if it wasn’t for the convenience, would have hot rid long ago.
TheRealAleman
New member
I was "persuaded" to give streaming ago from the tales of others here. It also helped that I had bought a Cambridge Audio DACMagic 200M to 'upgrade' the Cambridge Audio 650C CD Player that we had. I had a spare PC, so installed Volumio, and connected it ... was impressed playing some ripped CD's, so bought a cheap fanless PC and went the whole hog, A USB SSD holds all the ripped CD's (WAV 88.2 MHz), and I have a cheap Android Pad to control it. Streaming music I may want to buy from Qobuz, in 'Hi-Def'.
Upgraded the Power supply of the DAC with a LPSU, which also drives the fanless PC. I use Cisco switches, and CAT 7 / CAT 8 network cables.
For me streaming is a way to listen to music when I'm working, so I'm not jumping up to turn the record over. I don't think it will replace my analogue end, but quality wise it's hard to beat. It's also a great way to decide if I like an artists music enough to start the vinyl hunt ... Or even the CD hunt.
Upgraded the Power supply of the DAC with a LPSU, which also drives the fanless PC. I use Cisco switches, and CAT 7 / CAT 8 network cables.
For me streaming is a way to listen to music when I'm working, so I'm not jumping up to turn the record over. I don't think it will replace my analogue end, but quality wise it's hard to beat. It's also a great way to decide if I like an artists music enough to start the vinyl hunt ... Or even the CD hunt.
I totally agree that one of the most important things, if not _the_ most important thing in any DAC is the master clock. (Or clocks since two different frequencies are required for the two "families" of sample rates)
I have just spent quite a lot of time and effort experimenting with iterations of designs which have "finally" (never say finally!) arrived at this:
This is completely DIY apart from the bought-in JLSounds I2SoverUSB device that can be seen top right with blue pcb. The design is based upon the excellent DSD discrete DAC by Marcel on the DIYAudio forum:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/return-to-zero-shift-register-firdac.379406/
(That pcb is underneath the output filter board so is not visible in this photo)
The ability to also play PCM in addition to DSD is handled by the addition of the PCM2DSD module:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/simple-dsd-modulator-for-dsc2.370177/
which is also hidden under the re-clocker pcb beneath the JLSounds board. This board I designed the layout myself with a lot of help from forum members on DIYAudio.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...r-jlsounds-i2soverusb-pcm2dsd-rtz-dac.423401/
I show this just to give the background to my exploits trying to find the best performance from this DAC. What I have found is that the quality of the XOs, in terms of phase noise really, really matters. To get the most of that quality from the XOs then the power delivered to them should be as clean as possible, hence the LDO regulator on board the reclocker pcb, fed by a pre-regulator per section of the circuit. There are 8 separate power supplies in there. Power to the USB/logic side of the JLSounds is separate, the JLSounds galvanically isolates the DSD/PCM signals and the master clock to the JLSounds is derived from XOs in sockets for "XO rolling". Finally the three DSD signals are reclocked before being fed to the DAC.
At each stage, since this is a discrete DAC, it has been possible to tweak various things and listen to the results. Most changes were subtle and incremental, however the improvement to the master clock (from the clocks that are on the JLSounds I2SoverUSB) is not subtle. The soundstage, although already a big strength with this DAC, is greatly improved. As is simply the realism and accuracy of the sound.
I have just spent quite a lot of time and effort experimenting with iterations of designs which have "finally" (never say finally!) arrived at this:
This is completely DIY apart from the bought-in JLSounds I2SoverUSB device that can be seen top right with blue pcb. The design is based upon the excellent DSD discrete DAC by Marcel on the DIYAudio forum:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/return-to-zero-shift-register-firdac.379406/
(That pcb is underneath the output filter board so is not visible in this photo)
The ability to also play PCM in addition to DSD is handled by the addition of the PCM2DSD module:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/simple-dsd-modulator-for-dsc2.370177/
which is also hidden under the re-clocker pcb beneath the JLSounds board. This board I designed the layout myself with a lot of help from forum members on DIYAudio.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...r-jlsounds-i2soverusb-pcm2dsd-rtz-dac.423401/
I show this just to give the background to my exploits trying to find the best performance from this DAC. What I have found is that the quality of the XOs, in terms of phase noise really, really matters. To get the most of that quality from the XOs then the power delivered to them should be as clean as possible, hence the LDO regulator on board the reclocker pcb, fed by a pre-regulator per section of the circuit. There are 8 separate power supplies in there. Power to the USB/logic side of the JLSounds is separate, the JLSounds galvanically isolates the DSD/PCM signals and the master clock to the JLSounds is derived from XOs in sockets for "XO rolling". Finally the three DSD signals are reclocked before being fed to the DAC.
At each stage, since this is a discrete DAC, it has been possible to tweak various things and listen to the results. Most changes were subtle and incremental, however the improvement to the master clock (from the clocks that are on the JLSounds I2SoverUSB) is not subtle. The soundstage, although already a big strength with this DAC, is greatly improved. As is simply the realism and accuracy of the sound.
